pilferingapples:

wellfuckimessedup:

Les Mis fandom where did Floreal come from like I’m so confused

She’s the woman Grantaire is talking about during one of his (long) rants, during Preliminary Gayeties!  As Grantaire says:  

I met a pretty girl of my acquaintance, who is as beautiful as the spring, worthy to be called Floreal, and who is delighted, enraptured, as happy as the angels, because a wretch yesterday, a frightful banker all spotted with small-pox, deigned to take a fancy to her! Alas! woman keeps on the watch for a protector as much as for a lover; cats chase mice as well as birds. Two months ago that young woman was virtuous in an attic, she adjusted little brass rings in the eyelet-holes of corsets, what do you call it? She sewed, she had a camp bed, she dwelt beside a pot of flowers, she was contented. Now here she is a bankeress. This transformation took place last night. I met the victim this morning in high spirits. The hideous point about it is, that the jade is as pretty to-day as she was yesterday. Her financier did not show in her face. Roses have this advantage or disadvantage over women, that the traces left upon them by caterpillars are visible.  (Hapgood translation)

So we never meet her, exactly, but we hear a lot about her– she’s a working woman who makes a living setting the eyelets in corsets, who’s currently dating a banker. (Grantaire disapproves, and is pretty gross about doing so, but literally no one asked you, Grantaire.)

SLIGHTLY GROSS INFO BELOW CUT

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pilferingapples:

eetrelibre:

okay this is important @adamsveins and i disagree over feuilly’s height. please tell me your opinions & reblog to spread the word

Canon-era, I always assume he’s pretty small?

urgh cut for discussion of canon-era poverty side effects

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pilferingapples:

elritch:

ereini0n:

abcbarricade:

OKAY GUYS I feel like we don’t acknowledge enough that one line Grantaire says! I mean besides all the other lines that Grantaire says! The one that comes right after “I understand only love and liberty” remember that line (my favorite line)???
Yeah after that is my SECOND favorite line: “Never having had any money, I never got used to it, and therefore I’ve never felt the need of it; but if I’d been rich, there would have been no more poor!” THAT LINE.
He’s drunk here and still thinks of how he would help people if only he’d been in the position.
And it’s so interesting to me because Grantaire is speaking of how if he had the chance he would help, but meanwhile there is an actual barricade there with an actual hopeful revolution occurring. And he is not helping.
Enjolras and the other amis have their method of doing things, which is to demand more from the government. But GRANTAIRE (my beautiful son) doesn’t think that way. He doesn’t think going to the government will get them anywhere. He would go directly to the people suffering from the problem and help them with what he has, personally.
He’s surrounded by a bunch of rich schoolboys who have the money to help the poor directly (and also gain their devotion and to raise spirits) but who instead reject the money and challenge a powerful government. But he speaks of how if he was in their economic position he would do something guaranteed to help.
And this is from someone who says he “never (…) had any money” so he probably knows better than them how it feels to be like the rest of society, hardly making it through.
Idk man, this is my son and I love him.

This was in the tags, so I decided to go ahead a comment on this post.
Because I don’t think this way about the situation at all.

Grantaire is a sh*ttalker. That’s his thing (apart from literally 2-3 lines in all of his appearances in the book), and nothing he says should be taken at face value.
Sure, Grantaire seem to be favouring the theory of Valjean’s way of helping. And yes, helping the occasional citizen may help that citizen through the day, but what about the rest of their life? They’ll still die poor, powerless, subject to the whims of another King. Never masters of their own life.
Grantaire is thinking he is being theoretically kind, but he is but prolonging the status quo. Charity is never the way forward.

But even beyond that, he is not talking about being in the Amis’ economic position, because he is in their economic position – he is a wealthy bourgeois student, who can afford drinking and gambling through the day, and then wake up in his nice furnished apartment, with his nice clothes, to do more of the same on the next day. He knows every day from where his next meal is coming.
He’s talking about yet another fantasy, a Rotschilds-like fortune, basically something like ‘If I was King’.

From what we see of Grantaire, it’s all either a swollen-head self-aggrandizement, or meek fake-modesty. I think this is an instance of the latter.

Grantaire is troubled by society, and I am certain, and have always been certain, while reading the brick, that he has a good heart––but he does absolutely nothing, in the course of the brick, that puts him on a moral pedestal above the rest of the amis.  Far from it.  “Shittalker” sums it up.  

*** 

It is TOTALLY shittalking. Well-meant and hopeful bluster, but bluster all the same. 

FWIW it’s worth, I don’t think it’s either false modesty or self-aggrandizement, though. I think it’s fear. 

Grantaire’s “if I won the lottery” style lamenting here is like Gillenormand’s complaining that if HE were rich, he’d have SO many young mistresses, totally, you don’t even know.  Gillenormand IS rich, incredibly rich!  The reason he can’t have young mistresses is totally unrelated to that! But it’s face-saving to blame it on money.   Grantaire is, at the least, solidly middle-class– he COULD give to charity, or toss money to beggars in the street. Heck, he probably even does, when he thinks of it.  But his conviction that he can’t *really* change anything has nothing to do with money. 

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ok i hope this doesn’t come off as uninformed? But its been some time since I last dabbled into the Les Mis fandom, and it always makes me so happy to hear you “defend” Feuilly in a way, concerning how he’s usually portrayed in FF – I would really like to know your view on his personality, because i feel like he usually gets swept aside when everyone talks about les amis its usually just like Enjolras, Combeferre, Jehan (and maybe if you squint an alright not too cliche Courf)

thecoffeetragedy:

AN OPPORTUNITY TO TALK ABOUT FEUILLY! thank you friend 😀

  • so. he’s a complete nerd. like, he really is. His Brick description is not so much a list of personality traits as a list of special interests. That, actually, says a lot about his personality. He’s passionate, and enthusiastic, and a giant nerd.
  • kind of awkward too? he’s pretty confident about his knowledge of said interests, but he talks about them – all the time. even when it’s not really related to the subject at hand. He rants whenever someone – willingly or not – gives him the opportunity to. he gets so offended on the behalf of others and injustices and betrayal. every single time. Bless him.
  • He considers his own education as a way to deliver himself. He learned to read and write by himself, and while this would be impressive about anyone, but it’s even more knowing what we do about Feuilly’s background. He probably started working/apprenticeship really young, because the orphanage or wherever he was staying wouldn’t – couldn’t – have kept him on forever. But he still taught himself to read, seeing it as a mean to rise up beyond his circumstances. That’s more than hard work – that’s hope and ambition and dedication and desparation all blended together.
  • and he never loses that? it’s liked to his passion, really – he knows he/the world can be better, and he holds on to that, always strives towards that, even though his life must have been really difficult sometimes.
  • honestly he’s like the opposite of Grantaire in many ways – he has every reason in the world to be bitter and cynical, but he’s not. he’s so passionate (I’ve said it like three times oops) and he’s so. trusting? like. even more than Combeferre, who wasn’t surprised when the generals didn’t come to their aid. Feuilly was genuinely heartbroken over it, like – you’d have totally expected him to know that these higher-ups would have let them down like they’ve let them all down before, and he’s been let down a lot in his life, but he didn’t. whether he’s instinctively trusting or makes himself trust because he refuses to be bitter is a matter of interpretation, but. that’s really something.
  • it’s one of the reasons I picture him as a bit younger than most of the fandom does, really, because 1) being a worker in the 1820s/1830s (or today really) doesn’t at all mean that he has to be older than students, especially if it’s such a big deal that he never got to go to school in the first place, and 2) that idealism and trust and enthusiasm sentimental aspect of his personality just seems different than the sort of laid-back experience of the older members like Bahorel and Bossuet, idk.
  • oh man this is already so long why.
  • I haven’t even gotten to fanon/improvised traits I like to give him.
  • he’s just. a cutie. okay I’ll try to find other posts I’ve written about this before and reblog them.

my gripes about the way Feuilly is portrayed in fandom is usually when two (often related) things happen: his canon personality gets replaced by a bunch of classist cliches, like grumpy, swearing, fighting, macho, rude, close-minded etc, or when he becomes a sort of Bahorel-lite, with fighting, drinking, swearing, loud, and always mentionned as part of ‘BahorelandFeuilly’, never as an individual person (I dislike Bahorel’s characterisation in that too, but he usually is at least a little better? closer to his actual personality? anyway)

besides these two frankly terrible trends, I think, as with every character in this fandom, we have some leeway when it comes to personality traits. We have the descriptions in the book, which are frankly both precise and vague at the same time it’s kind of beautiful, as well as the way they’re played in the musical, different movies/shows/etc. so. my take on characters is not more valid than any other that’s done with, you know, some thoughts and consideration for the material and implications.

thecoffeetragedy:

but literally every time I read a description of Feuilly that goes along the line of ‘has big strong muscles because he’s a worker and working makes you buff’, I think of like. all those skinny kids working at Starbucks getting big strong muscles from operating the espresso machines. The cashiers at the grocery stores and their big strong muscles from putting food in bags. The people working in clothing stores and their big strong muscles from folding clothes and giving customers thumbs-up on their outfits. Me, getting big strong muscles from typing all day. even in canon era – painting tiny little fans, what a show of brute strenght.

Ahh, working, always such great muscle-building work-out.

library discoveries: the e/R outtakes edition

pilferingapples:

prouvairings:

so we all know there’s a bunch of stuff from hugo’s papers and notebooks that never made it into the novel, yes? here are a lot of them (look at them if you haven’t! it’s an adventure) but i’ve made it my mission in life to find more and today at the library i came across this book and in it, there were more. and guys. guys. one of them is my absolute favourite piece of e/R dialogue that never was. please have a look at this:

image

GRANTAIRE, smoking his pipe and tipsy
People think me situated at the height of philosophy. They are wrong. I am a pig. 
– That’s true, said Enjolras. 

just picture this exchange. grantaire, smoking a pipe, saying mean stuff about himself, as he does. enjolras, listening, calmly nodding, “yeah….tru….you’re saying it like it is.” combeferre really has some competition in the whole “completely destroy ur opponent using two words or less” department, and grantaire arguably has unlocked a whole new level of putting his own intellect down for fun

(seriously, though, it’s interesting that he wrote this bit in 1861 – so shortly before publication – because around that time, he also made a work note that said “increase enjolras’ harshness toward grantaire. near contempt” so this might have been an idea of how to do that, but he ended up not using it? you can always argue about how intentional the whole e/R dynamic is, but there was a lot of thought put into its details, because that’s the hugo way)

Ooh, I’ve seen this exchange before but without the work note! It’s interesting that he didn’t use it, then! I’ve often thought that the way Enjolras is actually shown treating Grantaire doesn’t really line up with Hugo’s description– except at the barricades, Enjolras never seems to be much besides “reasonably annoyed” about him. 

…I gotta say though, that in combination with what we see of Grantaire’s other exchanges, this bit of dialogue does actually read as more  familiar and friendly than what we’re given in the book. Grantaire does a lot of Play Insulting and boundary-testing with his friends–including Enjolras– in-book, and is sarcastic and insulting about the whole world in general a lot. This seems to be on that level– which I know is not a comfortable way of expressing closeness for everyone, but we’ve got lots of evidence that it is *for Grantaire*–which to me makes it seem that Enjolras, who’s otherwise pretty serious and direct, is to some extent meeting him halfway on that .  I mean, I could see this being part of a series of bantering dialogue between R and Courfeyrac or Bossuet, no problem. (Grantaire of course has much more complicated feelings about Enjolras, but it’s hardly Enjolras’ job to know that when Grantaire himself doesn’t.)  

Anyway, it is a great little bit of dialogue! Thank you for bringing it back! 

vintage-jehan:

Friendly reminder that the first person Marius talks to after he had just fallen out with his grandfather is Bossuet.

Marius who has to be absolutely heart-broken and angry, whose father has recently died, who has just made his grandfather kick him out, who has just left his financialy stable, secure life, the only life he’s ever had, who has no idea where to go, what to do, with next to no money and literally no one left.

Marius who then hears this random stranger calling out his name, a man he has never even met before and who just got kicked out of law school for someone he didn’t even know. A completely poor, young man who doesn’t even has a place to live, who does something nice for someone he has never met without expecting anything in return simply out of the sheer goodwill of his heart.

Bossuet is literally the first good thing that happens to Marius in this new, probably absolutely terrifying part of his life that just started.

He is like, the epitome hope here, that things might not be as bad as they seem. That even in the most hopeless times, there’s the brightness of unconditional human kindness.
I just. Love. Bossuet. So. Much.

In regards to Hugo and his name puns….would you be able to make a masterlist of all of them? (the known ones at least). if you have the time :3

pilferingapples:

yourcouragetothestickingplace:

vapaus-ystavyys-tasaarvo:

robertawickham:

pilferingapples:

WHOOOWOW that  is a big order 
But here, I have done what I can !

Notes: This is more or less in the order of character appearance.I’ve only included puns and references , not direct translations or name meanings (like “Felix” meaning “lucky”).  I also haven’t sourced everything, because then I would really take forever answering this’; I’ve tried to get SOME sources linked in; if there’s any source someone’s especially curious about, let me know and I’ll add it. 
ALSO I am in NO way saying this is a complete list of references or puns. I know right now Im’,  missing some really good references about Fantine and Eponine!   It is possible it will never be complete. But if anyone would like to help complete it, and sees a reference or a joke I’ve missed, please message me and let me know!  I want to know about these things too! 
Anyway. Here goes: 

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This is great!  Fantine, I’m pretty sure, is derivative of enfant or enfantin (child or childish).  She’s a stray kid on the streets, people just call her “kid”, eventually some version of that becomes her name. 

Éponine is the French version of Eponina, wife of Julius Sabinus, who was a leader of the Gauls.  Sabinus led a revolt against the Roman Empire, lost, and became a fugitive.  Eponina visited him in secret, and sought a pardon for him, but he was caught and executed.  Eponina then demanded the Roman emperor Vespasian execute her too, and he obliged.  The story became popular in late 18th and 19th century France, and inspired many creative works, including a novel, plays, and an opera.  Wikipedia (linked above) says its appeal was due to its connotations of “wifely virtue, patriotism and anti-imperialism.”  So, a really obvious reference there!  There’s probably something subversive about Hugo applying the story of a virtuous Roman matron to a girl who’d be considered a common criminal in her society, too.

Oooh! Yay for all of the puns! And other origins.

Oh I can help with the Enjolras bit! It’s originally an Occitan name so the actual meaning comes from Occitan enjeura = to terrify. But it also happens to sound a LOT like the French word enjôler = to charm. Also the Enj part is pronounced like ange = angel.

In other words:

“Enjolras was a charming young man, who was capable of being terrible. He was angelically handsome.”

Victor Hugo you cheaky devil you.

As for the Jeanne part… I really doubt that. Enj is the phonological palindrome of Jean (this was pointed out by the annotated edition of Les Mis that I own) but to have anything to do with Jeanne there would have to be an n sound somewhere. (I don’t even think the Jean link is very likely. But it would make it sound pretty funny if his first name was Jean which it probably is let’s face it.)

I don’t know about Courf puns but I do know that there’s a castle called Fayrac (pronounced exactly the same as Feyrac) in

Castelnaud-la-Chapelle in Dordogne and another one in

Beynac-et-Cazenac and possibly even another one in La Roque-Gageac. EDIT: Or… in fact more probably now that I found all these three communes on the map: it’s the same castle.

Also cour means either courtyard or court so both relate to a castle. In any case I’ve been told by at least two actual French people that it’s a very obviously Gascon name… if you ever wondered which area of France Courfeyrac was from (aside from just generally the south).

So, I’ve been digging around about the Fayrac castle. The castle was a part of the lands of the comte de Périgord.

The comtes de Périgord belonged to the House of Talleyrand (hence the name de Talleyrand-Périgord).

If Courf’s using the castle name as territorial designation/surname, then he’s related to Talleyrand

#let me repeat  #courfeyrac is related to talleyrand  #i don’t even know if that’s better or worse than my headcanon of courf being lafayette’s reckless reprobate of a grandson  #who used to idolise him as a child then slowly grew disillusioned with his grandfather over time  #culminating in courf cutting off all their ties after what he did in ‘30  #but a courfeyrac related to talleyrand  #this opens a whole new can of worms #which i do actually want to touch with a ten-foot metal pole  #maybe that’s where courf got his thing with the ladies?  #but i digress  #because their political opinions are so vastly different  #that is  #if talleyrand even has a permanent political opinion  #jesus  #this is looking to be more promising than a laf/courf familial dynamic  #les mis

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VITAL UPDATE

Drink With Me

humanity-is-a-quality:

I don’t think that Grantaire’s solo in Drink With Me is
actually as sad as one may think. There’s a strong juxtaposition between him
singing about how they won’t be remembered and the reality of thousands of people commemorating their death. Perhaps the
best example of this is George Blagden’s video: the words of the song
are contradicted by the actual video, in which he returns to the site
of the barricade almost two centuries later and has now been viewed by thousands of
people. In other words, Grantaire’s solo is beautiful because he was wrong. Their
deaths did mean something and almost
two centuries later, the people who lost their lives in the June rebellion are
still remembered. Because ultimately the June rebellion has been immortalised
by Les Miserables, and I doubt anyone will ever forget it.